Is Decarbonization Dead?

July 25, 2025

Guests: Jesse Jenkins, Jane Flegal

Jesse Jenkins is a Princeton professor who leads the ZERO lab and runs the REPEAT Project modeling U.S. emissions policy || Jane Flegal is a Ph.D. social scientist of science who helped oversee the IRA's clean energy investments in the Biden White House and wrote her dissertation on solar geoengineering.

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About this episode

With Trump's 'big, beautiful bill' gutting the Inflation Reduction Act, Klein asks energy experts Jesse Jenkins and Jane Flegal whether American decarbonization is dead. They explain the IRA's roughly $370 billion climate program — clean electricity tax credits, EV incentives, and the Greenhouse Gas Reduction Fund — had put the U.S. about halfway to Biden's 2030 target, and that repeal leaves America a 'petrostate' while China becomes an 'electrostate' dominating EV and battery supply chains. They detail what the bill killed (wind, solar, EV credits) and what survived (nuclear, geothermal, the 45X manufacturing credit), then sketch an agenda for a future Democratic trifecta: permitting and transmission reform, deployment-led innovation (especially geothermal), trade policy, and possibly a carbon tax. They also tackle surging AI data-center electricity demand and honest climate communication without apocalyptic framing.

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